Science Fiction Oral History Association Archives

Series WB: The Science Fiction Radio Show Collection

WB–10 (90) Both Sides.

Notes: Three men who knew Robert E. Howard in boyhood and all of his life tell in 1982 interviews of Howard’s growing up and his untimely suicide in 1936.  Leroy Butler, Jack Scott, and J. Brown Baum reminisce about the young author. Daryl Lane interviews. Invaluable material for Howard enthusiasts and scholars. There are three short (10-20 minute) individual interviews, one at the beginning of Side A (Leroy Butler) and two at the beginning of Side B. The last two subjects are not identified on tape.

Third Interview—J. Brown Baum

JBB: [garbled]

DL: No, sir. We talked to Jack Scott.

JBB: Yeah, I know Jack

DL: There in Cross Plains, and he referred us to you and your brother.

JBB: Mm,hmm.

DL: And what we’re mainly just looking for are just some, oh, some, some interesting stories, or any reminisces you might have about Mr. Howard.

JBB: Well, yes. I’d be glad to tell you what I know about him. I’ll try to think of some of things that happened when he was, ah—an unusual fellow, I know that. And, ah, have you read some of his stories?

DL: Yes, I have. What type of person was he?

JBB: Well, he was a kind of a loner. And, ah, I just recount, ah—see I don’t think he ever went out with a girl at all. But he wrote some pretty outstanding, ah, [buzzer noise] stories . . .

[Note: The connection is lost at this point and some of the interview was not captured after they had reconnected]

JBB: And, uh, I recall some of the stories he wrote when he was in high school. And they were really outstanding, but he never did, ah, he really wasn’t in our group. He was a kind of a outsider. Yes, he was readily accepted. But I remember one time we were having a party and I was running a little ole rental store they had in Cross Plains and we were having a party upstairs. And Robert came and we were drinking some beers, choc beer[1]  or something—that’s a way back before Prohibition, you know. And I know he got very upset about that—he got a little bit tight—and he said that he would kill anybody who interfered with his hands. If his hands ever got damaged by somebody else, that he’d kill ‘em.

[Note: two clicks occur in the background]

JBB: Hello?

DL: Yes, sir.

JBB: And that was just kind of the fellow he was. Kind of morose and he thought he had a real bright future ahead of him as a writer.

DL: Yeah.

JBB: And I don’t think I ever saw him after that until I had heard he—I believe he committed suicide, didn’t he?

DL: Yes, sir. He did, ah, in 1936.

JBB: I knew his father real well. I didn’t know his mother much. But I know he was an only child, I believe. And, ah, he never did enter into any of our activities very much as I remember. So, I don’t really know what I could say to you that would help you on that.

DL: Well, what you’ve already told us is quite a bit of help. Why do you suppose he was such a loner being in such a small town? And usually everybody, you know, does things so much together?

JBB: I don’t know. I don’t know. He just, he could have been a great author, I think. He had a—I don’t remember even what kind of grades he made academically. I know I—I took an idea from an idea he had for a story and tried to write a theme on it. And he had already turned it in, I got in big trouble, as you know, trying to steal his idea. And that kinda—I never did try that anymore again. But I know he could tell a story that really—this was something about a bear who got up in the attic or something and broke through and disturbs some poker players. But then, I really can’t tell you very much about Robert. Come to think of it, I—there’s another writer, C.S. Boyles. I don’t know whether you ever heard of him or not.

DL: Ah, no, sir.

JBB: From our town. And Jack Scott didn’t mention C.S.?

DL: No, I don’t believe so. No.

JBB: Well, Ah, what did Jack tell you about him?

DL: Ah, mostly, he had worked a little bit for Jack on the newspaper. And, oh, Jack talked about what type of person he was. A vigorous man, although he kept himself quite a bit.

JBB: Yeah.

DL: Has like—

JBB: I wish I could recall more about that party. But I know he scared the hell out of all of us because he got really excited and thought we was a trying to damage his writing career or something. Getting’ him full of beer. I don’t recall exactly why. But anyway, he said he’d kill anybody that damaged his hands in any way. Seem like I remember that pretty vividly. I don’t know, maybe, maybe something happened there with his hands and maybe we got in a wrastlin’ match or something. I don’t know. But anyway, he, ah, he wanted to write with his hands.

DL: That’s very—that’s very interesting. You don’t happen to recollect any other things you might have done with Howard back when you all were living in Cross Plains?

JBB: Well, like I say, he wasn’t in our group. We went fishin’ and we went sunnin’ in the _____ [?] there and, uh, we hunted quail. But he was never one of us. And how he happened to be in this deal, I don’t know. I don’t think he ever had a date with a girl. He was a nice-looking guy—very presentable and tall and well made. And even if I talk to you, I can’t, I can’t really tell you anything much that I remember about him except that I remember him being a very outstanding—that he would have been a ou—a great writer, I think.

DL: Listen, what you’ve told me so far has been quite helpful. We’re putting together just bits and pieces of people who did know him, along with some research that some other people have done.

JBB: Unh, hunh.

DL: And I’d like to go ahead and put your, your, ah, recollection to that party and some of the other things you said into our program.

JBB: Well, [coughs] that’s authentic, but I can’t quite recall the details of what happened to his hands. Maybe we were arm-wrestling or something, I don’t know. But he got very uptight about, about what might happen to one of his hands or his arms or something.

DL: Yeah, he sounded . . .

JBB: I guess that was the only time you ever had drink of beer in his life.

DL: It sounded like what a—more talk with some other people that he might have been kind, that he might have been kind of insecure.

JBB: Well, I think so. He was an only child, I know that. And I don’t know how close he was with his mother, but I don’t think his father had anything to do with him. It was my kind of feeling, I don’t know. Dr. Howard was a real fine man., you know, and I don’t know how close they were together, but I think that he worshiped his mother. It was my impression in those years. And I don’t know whether she died first or not, do you?

DL: Ah, she had gone into a coma and was not expected to recover.

JBB: Oh, well, now that’s the reason for the suicide.

DL: Yes.

JBB: ‘Cause he, ah, he worshipped her. And I know I can almost be sure of that. That he worshipped his mother. And I know that her condition affected him very much. And I know that he was a real afraid that something was to happen that he couldn’t write anymore. Whether it was mind, or whether it was in his mind, or whether it was in his fear that something would happen to his hands. But that’s the incident that I recall more vividly than anything else, and I’ve often thought of it.

DL: I certainly do appreciate your talking with me. And, uh . . .

JBB: And I believe I was the one that, ah, I believe that he could have strangled me to death there. I don’t recall whether it was me or somebody else, but it seems to me like, ah, his anger was toward me. And I know he frightened the hell out of me.

DL: He was a very big and strong fellow.

JBB: Yes, very strong, cause, ah, could twist your neck off.

DL: Much like the heroes that he wrote about?

JBB: Mm, hmm.

DL: If you wouldn’t, ah, if you’d give me your address, I’ll send you a release form and what that does is simply you give us permission to use what I’ve been taping.

JBB: Oh, well that doesn’t matter to me. I don’t care whether you use it or not. I’m just trying to be honest with you. And I have no hold on—you can quote me any way you want to. And as I say, it’s been a long time ago, but those are my recollections and I’ve often thought of them.

DL: Okay, well this is . . .

JBB: It made a real strong impression on me that I was in real danger there.

DL: Well, fortunately, you made it through it.

JBB: [laughs] Well, other things have happened to me that I guess almost as dangerous. But then, anyway, that’s, ah, that’s what I remember about Robert.

DL: Okay.

JBB: Through all that with no problems apparently and no attachments that I know of to anybody except . . . [Recording ends]

[1] “Choc Beer” was an abbreviated term for Choctaw Beer made by the Choctaw Indians of southeastern Oklahoma.

 

Will Oliver, in the words of Robert E. Howard, is just “some line-faced scrivener,” who has been a fan of the greatest pulp author since discovering him in 1979. He is a member of REHupa, has published on Howard in The Dark Man: The Journal of Robert E. Howard, and is currently at work on a biography of his life and times.